Jul 26, 2024
by Nick Bentley

Read more at https://www.pinkbike.com/

As part of our bike check and conversation with the Ford Decathlon team and the Rockrider product manager, it became apparent that this team had a significant partner in the form of Manitou. They have been developing their R8 fork and a brand new lockout design almost exclusively for the Rockrider team at the World Cup. It has been amazing to see the work that Manitou has been putting in, starting with a brand new World Cup service program and continuing with development work in the pits at the World Cup, keeping up with the demanding pace of one of the most challenging teams in the World Cup XC pits. We chatted with Kyle at Manitou to talk all about the new R8 fork and the new Ace Deuce lockout lever he has been developing.

PB Okay, Kyle. So a bit of big step for you guys in the latest iteration of your XC fork. Do you want to talk us through it, it's got a name change, right?

It does. So the new fork is the R8 Pro, having evolved from the R7 Pro and our 32mm chassis that we were using when we started our partnership with Decathlon Ford Racing team back in ’22. The R7 is a good fork, very robust for being just a 32mm, but it’s heavy for an XC fork and we recognized that an update was required. That’s really when the project started and began to evolve into what it is today.

PB Are we talking an evolution or were you guys almost a ground up redesign?

It’s probably more of a revolutionary evolution for us. We started with the Mattoc, which is really kind of our venerable 34 millimeter that’s been around for quite some time but was also undergoing a refresh at the time. While we were developing the new Mattoc, we started looking at what we could do to make it a super lightweight chassis, but also ensure it still meets the demands of the XC realm. Lightweight, but stiff enough for the courses as they’re evolving into what they are today. We also wanted to create a damper more specific to XC. So part of it has been leveraging what we’ve already learned with R7, with Mattoc, and the other is pushing the limits of those learnings.

PB There's a really key point you touched on there with the changing of the tracks, has that been a bit of a struggle for you guys? It seems like it's evolved pretty quickly in the last 3 or 4 years.

It definitely has and I think we’ve got a chassis with the R8 now that we’re really happy with. We made some big improvements with regard to weight compared to the R7 and we’re right on with the latest from our competitors but I think we’re still biased more towards robustness and rigidity so that we do have longevity of the fork over the course of a season.

BP So maybe less of a struggle for you guys than others, really?

Definitely.

BP Some of that strength in your fork comes from your lower. Not many people probably know much about the reverse arch design. Do you want to give us a quick run through that.

So the reverse arch has been part of the Manitou brand for years. It’s the way that we can develop a stiffer chassis that’s lighter weight than a forward arch. Basically, if you look at the way the legs are offset from the wheel, you can go shorter and also closer to the casting or the lowers because of the way that the tire arcs.

BP Yeah, you're kind of sitting lower behind the wheel.

Exactly. Less material, lower weight.

PB And this R8 has had its lowers put on a bit of a diet.

It has been on a bit of a diet, yes. With the Mattoc, we went through all of the FEAs and iterations to optimize the arch, not only the trussing but also how far down the arch goes down the back of the legs. We didn’t want to cut a new lower casting tool just for the R8 so we looked at the Mattoc FEAs and said, well, here’s some low-stress areas where we kept material for tooling design and we knew we could cut out for weight, and that’s where we ended up machining out more material to get us to the R8 chassis.

PB It's quite a slender profile, especally at the back. You guys have also profiled around the seals too?

Yes, we’ve done our best to recognize where some material, just inefficient material was from previous forks. So, we’ve really looked everywhere that we could to pull weight out efficiently for the Mattoc chassis and then obviously dug deeper into that with the extra machining profiles and whatnot with the R8 to get the lightest weight possible.

PB Whilst we're on the lowers, you have a couple of new ports on the back what do they do?

Yes. Relatively new for the XC realm but we took the TSR trail side relief bleeder ports that are on the Mezzer and Mattoc forks already and kept those for the R8 as well. They’re a pretty neat feature that, by unscrewing them, you can balance the inside pressure of the castings to atmospheric pressure. But it also actually adds a bit of serviceability to it since through the bleed ports, you can inject a couple of cc’s of semi bath directly into the foam rings. Gives you a little bit of a refresh right before a race without having to pull the lowers completely.

PB It's interesting, it's very much a user friendly move then.

Absolutely. Serviceability is definitely one of the biggest things we try to incorporate with the Manitou brand and also all of the Hayes brands. We want to make it achievable for our customers, for the riders, for the mechanics to easily work with our products.

PB Yeah, for sure. And the changes aren't just skin deep, inside there are some significant changes too?

For sure. For the stanchions, the Manitou pro forks have typically had butted wall stanchion where it’s thicker cylinder wall at the top, then transitions to thinner at the bottom. For R8, we’ve gone thin wall top to bottom, again based on the FEAs and internal testing we’ve done previously. We’ve also gone with a thinner profile on the crown machining compared to the Mattoc and developed a lighter Hexlock axle called SLR. All of it encapsulated into what we’re calling our Hyperlite chassis. Besides that, we’ve maintained the Dorado air spring, which is our pro-level self-equalizing air spring, and also the IVA or incremental volume adjust, kind of Manitou’s volume token system but uses a moveable piston with smaller spacers to hold it in place instead of adding or removing pucks to the positive chamber. We’ve also developed a XC-specific cartridge damper for the R8 as well.

PB Yeah, that cartridge damper is pretty special right. How much can you go into it?

So, early prototypes of R8 had essentially the same damper configuration as the R7, a half-cartridge rebound assembly with the VTT Pro compression damper. The half-cartridge design is a little better for service because it doesn’t really require any special bleed tools or processes but it’s inherently heavier than a sealed cartridge because of the extra oil volume. We also found that, especially as we were tuning with the race teams, that the half cartridge is also a bit of a pain because it requires removing the casting to access the rebound assembly and slowed down what we could test in a given session. So we went down the path of a new cartridge with features similar to R7 but again pushing what we could do with it. So the R8 cartridge is now the VTT Pro-X. A three position damper with three different modes, one for open, second for a trail setting with added support for flow and technical climbs, and then third which is a rigid lockout. We also have a low-speed adjustment for the open or P1 position. The unique part of our new cartridge damper is that each of those individual positions has its own shim stack. So each of those positions are independently tunable, which gives us a lot of flexibility for a wide range of conditions.

PB Really makes this quite a unique race fork. I know you can't really say what's going on inside lots of races, forks, but are teams taking full advantage of this?

Yeah, definitely. We've got a few different tunes amongst the different teams that we sponsor and support. Obviously can't go into minute details, but yeah, we are definitely leveraging that.

PB Yeah, I can see them all loving it. It's a perfect segway, alongside that. You have a new lockout lever, right?

We do. We’re calling it the Ace/Deuce collection. So, it’s Ace for a dropper-specific lever that should be compatible with most dropper posts but specifically for the Manitou Jack dropper post and the Jack SL, which is our lightweight XC/gravel dropper post. We also have the Deuce, which is for simultaneous lockout of fork and shock, that we developed for the R8 while also being compatible with most other Manitou forks and shocks. The Deuce lever also has a unique setup where there’s a separate track plate inside that allows you to do two position, three position, different cable pull lengths. It makes it easily replaceable and also makes for some interesting possibilities in the future for compatibility.

PB This part is really a race driven part. You guys were designing it at the World Cup last year.Yeah, it was actually something we started seriously digging into in late ’22, putting target specs and rough concepts together after our first year with Rockrider. Then it was after one of the European training camps in early ’23 where on the flight back to the US, we were mocking up designs in 3D and things really started to gel and progress pretty rapidly from there. I think we ended up 3D printing three or four rounds of lever concepts to test ergonomics and get a feel for bar positioning and thumb pad texture, then doing the raw CNC prototypes in time for Val Di Sole last year. Then another short round of CNCs after feedback from the Decathlon team before putting the final pieces together. We obviously also did lab testing to ensure everything was kosher on production builds, all of which lead to what you see available today.

PB It's definitely been a labor of love for you. How have you found that process of almost working live and really not hidden either?

It's been interesting. I think the unique part of it is that you're making changes, but also getting that immediate push pull feedback for the riders. And I think that's what really all engineers want in the grand scheme of things, to be able to get almost immediate feedback from, you know, basically your customer, and being able to make those changes live. I think it makes for a more robust product in the end and also just a really interesting and dynamic process.

PB What really struck me, and it's probably going to be hard to get across in an interview, is how well thought through that lever is. I know that sounds stupid because everybody thinks through their products, but serviceability has really been thought about, right?

Serviceability, flexibility, and durability, yeah. It’s all metal construction for both levers. We used screws that are off the shelf in case one gets lost or damaged. We’ll have upgrade kits so that you can convert an Ace or Deuce individual lever into the combined Ace/Deuce assembly without needing to purchase a complete combined lever if you’ve already bought an R8 or a Jack. One of the cool things too is that, the combined Ace/Deuce lever that most of the athletes run, you typically see with the dropper lever in the high position and the lockout lever in the low position but you can actually flip the levers, so that you can run dropper high or dropper low depending on your preference. All of it is configurable within the same assembly, no extra parts or special tools necessary, and the levers can be flipped even when assembled to the bike with all the cables connected.

PB Following that, the thing that really struck me when we were here last year looking at Hayes brakes, is you really work on that servicablity of your products and here all the bearings are the same. The plates are able to be replaced as well.

Plates are replaceable. Both main levers spin on ball bearings, sealed cartridge bearings that are off the shelf designs, and the levers are designed so that the bearings can be easily pressed out and pressed in. Also, no special tools required. So again, it’s easily serviceable and easily repairable.

PB At the World Cup, we're seeing more and more brands go electric for these parts, but I feel like here, cables are not dead; the simplicity is an advantage.

Absolutely, from a weight perspective and from a serviceability standpoint. With a manual system, you allow the rider to still make decisions and judgments about the conditions and a broken cable is ultimately a lot easier to replace than anything electronic. There’s still a market for manual systems and that’s who we’re trying to still cater to with the new Ace/Deuce system.

PB You have more new things coming to not just the fork its a big XC launch of product correct?

Yeah, as part of the XC launch, we have the updated Mara Pro XC inline shock as well. Biggest improvement for the product line is the new air can with adjusted volumes and a dimpled balancing groove between the negative and positive chambers.

PB Sothe extra volume that you're putting in, is that both positive side and negative side?

Yes it is.

PB Okay.So it's really just to give a bit more suppleness to that shock.

Yeah, a little bit more suppleness and better balance for a wider range of air pressures. The biggest thing for us is the balancing groove where the positive and negative chambers will equalize in pressure just past top-out, where previous iterations of the Mara had a fixed negative volume and pressure. Now we get a lot more flexibility and a much more robust product overall.

PB We looked at your Downhill shock at the last round at Leogang and there's been some machining done on that. So you guys aren't happy to sit still at all on any product, are you?

Not at all. That's why we're here ultimately, we're continuing to push products forward. Obviously, there's a lot of cool stuff that's in the pipeline that we can't talk about but yeah, that's ultimately why we're here.

PB You'reinto year two of being on site racing support at a World Cup, and you've already completely revolutionized one of your forks, brought in a new matchmaker system. How have you guys coped? I mean, you're not a big team.

We aren't. I think part of it is, you know, you take what can be seen as disadvantages and then you use them as advantages. With being a bigger team or with having more sponsored athletes, you potentially need to narrow down your focus and make things a little bit maybe less flexible or less diverse with the teams just to not get bogged down. With the group that we have, we are able to be a little bit more flexible and cater more individually to the teams and the riders that we're working with. So I think that's really the big thing. That said though, we're trying to compete within the industry too and make upgrades as we go with a new tent, new van, new equipment, just continuing to build our presence and capabilities at these events. Honestly, it's been fun so far. We're learning a lot as we go and everything that we're learning is being dumped straight back into not only improving how we operate here but also how we’re operating back home.

PBYeah, nothing quite beats being here, right?

Absolutely not. It's the best option for testing because, really, the amount of testing that we're doing or the amount of riding that's done, it could take two, three years to do the number of miles that we're seeing with one of the teams. So it's accelerated. It's moving incredibly quickly. It's forcing us to push forward as well on product improvements. I don't think there's any place that we'd rather be.